Brake issues with high speed stopping

[paxton]

Ever since I had my factory slotted rotors turned and then the posi-quiet pads installed I've had issues with brake pedal fade with high speed stopping. Now....it's gotten to the point that once my rotors heat up from stopping hard(slowing down from a high rate of speed), my front end is starting to shimmy badly. If I stop at normal speeds everything seems fine. I'm thinking that since my rotors have been turned and the slots are now half of what they used to be, that once the rotors and pads heat up, there's no where for the heat and gases to escape to fast enough, thus causing my shimmy. I guess my rotors could be slightly warped also at this point. I'll probably buy some factory slotted rotors and some Satisified ceramics for the front soon and see how it goes. What do you guys think ?

[StevoSRT]

factory rotors are pretty cheap i hear....

and ceremaics (from what im told) dont seem to give you teh same stoppage as the oem pads....

are you looking for the best performance...lowest dust....or what?

[paxton]

factory rotors are pretty cheap i hear....

and ceremaics (from what im told) dont seem to give you teh same stoppage as the oem pads....

are you looking for the best performance...lowest dust....or what?

Yeah, I'm going with the factory slots. I've heard some really good things about the Satisfied ceramics, so I'm going to try those out. Supposedly they're similar in performance to the stock Brembo pads and alot less dust. I've never liked the Posi-quiets from day one, except they don't create much dust at all. Besides that...I think they suck!

[mikes'ss]

exact same thing was going on with my silverado on towing ,it was a malfuctioning inner pad ,passenger side ,not closing ,front ened would shake but only when they were hot ,,just a thought

[DragginWagon]

Yeah, I'm going with the factory slots. I've heard some really good things about the Satisfied ceramics, so I'm going to try those out. Supposedly they're similar in performance to the stock Brembo pads and alot less dust. I've never liked the Posi-quiets from day one, except they don't create much dust at all. Besides that...I think they suck!

Im at about 18k miles on satisfied pads and I recomend them. They stop just as good as OEM pads with a LOT less dust. You could always upgrade brake lines while you're at it for an extra added boost in stopping power.

[paxton]

So do you guys think the problem is just with the pads/rotors or does anyone think I'm having a problem with the calipers themselves?

[markus]

steve, thats ALL pad. the pq's fade like its their job. i now have the red stuff and they bite as good as if not better than the brembo pads. if you want, i've got a set of unused/never istalled slotted/dimpled rotors for 4. they also have brake pads with them (not sure what kind) and a lifetime warranty. not sure what's causing your shimmy though. i get that SOMETIMES (thats what prompted me to buy the rotors) and i had thought my rotors were warped. could just be the road surface. i know 295 south by the 295/76 split feels like your stuck in train tracks, and that tries to steer my car all over the place.

[mikes'ss]

na pax i meant to say that ,mine was a faulty caliper ,sorry dude its early over here,,[malfunctioning inner caliper] is what i meant

[paxton]

steve, thats ALL pad. the pq's fade like its their job. i now have the red stuff and they bite as good as if not better than the brembo pads. if you want, i've got a set of unused/never istalled slotted/dimpled rotors for 4. they also have brake pads with them (not sure what kind) and a lifetime warranty.
I forget how much you want for them. I might be interested in the rotors, but I definitely want to try the Satisfied ceramics as far as pads go.

[StevoSRT]

do just doing braided brake lines help that much?

[markus]

I forget how much you want for them. I might be interested in the rotors, but I definitely want to try the Satisfied ceramics as far as pads go.
400. and that covers shipping. the pads came free with them so i was throwing them in free. they were over 500 when i bought them. not saying that your rotors ARE the problem, but theres a chance they could be warped. ive got almost 80,000 miles on my stockers and they seem to be holding up fine, then again i do alot of engine braking.
http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_rotors.php?vtype=1&vmake=39178&vmodel=39179&vyear=39279&vdetail=39288&cPath=1_39178_39179_39279_39288_39290&dv=100509&ad=direct

do just doing braided brake lines help that much?

they help build pressure in the brake lines by not letting them bulge

[SRTDOUG]

Steve did you "bed" the pads when they were installed?

[paxton]

Steve did you "bed" the pads when they were installed?

No. Just drove it like normal afterwards and tried not to do any really heavy braking for alittle while.

[SRTDOUG]

No. Just drove it like normal afterwards and tried not to do any really heavy braking for alittle while.


Ok next time you should do this.

Do 3 HARD stops from 30mph drive a little further letting them cool...then do 3 hard stops again from around 50mph and drive a little further to let them cool...then finally 3 hard stops from about 70mph and let them cool and park the car.

You then should have zero problems.

But search for Bedding pads to make sure I have the sequence right. I did that when i converted my SS to C5 Brakes...I bedded the pads and have NEVER had brake problems with them EVER!! They stop RIGHT NOW. Granted my Mag has better brakes....but at the time this was a GREAT upgrade for my LT1 brakes.

[1fastsedan]

Yeah, I'm going with the factory slots. I've heard some really good things about the Satisfied ceramics, so I'm going to try those out. Supposedly they're similar in performance to the stock Brembo pads and alot less dust. I've never liked the Posi-quiets from day one, except they don't create much dust at all. Besides that...I think they suck!
Stock rotors are a good choice, but I have the Satisfied ceramic pads and hate them. They don't have anywhere near the grip of the OEM pads. They probably stop the car in about the same distance, but they have zero bite. I've never stopped long, but they sure do induce some pucker on a hard stop. However, they do dust a LOT less and they last forever (and I've really tried to kill them so I can put new pads on). And I too have the shake with high speed stops. I'm thinking its my tension struts, I know my bushings are torn.

I would recommend EBC yellows or the Bendix pads. Much closer to stock performance, less dust than stock, but more than the Satisfieds.

[paxton]

Ok next time you should do this.

Do 3 HARD stops from 30mph drive a little further letting them cool...then do 3 hard stops again from around 50mph and drive a little further to let them cool...then finally 3 hard stops from about 70mph and let them cool and park the car.

You then should have zero problems.

But search for Bedding pads to make sure I have the sequence right. I did that when i converted my SS to C5 Brakes...I bedded the pads and have NEVER had brake problems with them EVER!! They stop RIGHT NOW. Granted my Mag has better brakes....but at the time this was a GREAT upgrade for my LT1 brakes.

I'll have to do some research on the bedding process. I wonder what the repeated stops does to the pads and rotors? I'm guessing it helps them mate up to each other better. I'm also assuming its probably too late to bed in my current pads and rotors, so I'll be buying front rotors and pads very soon. I should've never turned the slotted rotors. I was trying to save a few bucks back then, but I've learned my lesson....I'll never to that again. I looked at my rotors today, ahd my slots aren't very deep at all and are probably worthless for helping dissipate heat, dust, etc.

[SRTDOUG]

I'll have to do some research on the bedding process. I wonder what the repeated stops does to the pads and rotors? I'm guessing it helps them mate up to each other better. I'm also assuming its probably too late to bed in my current pads and rotors, so I'll be buying front rotors and pads very soon. I should've never turned the slotted rotors. I was trying to save a few bucks back then, but I've learned my lesson....I'll never to that again. I looked at my rotors today, ahd my slots aren't very deep at all and are probably worthless for helping dissipate heat, dust, etc.

Well the slots aren't for dissippating heat. They are there to remove dust and debris.

drilled rotors are for dissipating heat but mainly to eliminate outgassing from the brake pads. But with the technology of today this isn't really necessary. Some say the holes are for cooling. But I use the analogy of a pot of water. What takes longer to heat up: A full pot of water or a half full pot of water? And in normal everyday driving, you want them to take longer to heat up.

For racing? Yeah drilled is probably the way to go where they are constantly heat cycled. But this causes stress fractures around the holes and can cause the rotor to crack.

Just my take. Granted drilled rotors LOOK cool, I just don't think they are suited for everyday driving...

[1fastsedan]

Well the slots aren't for dissippating heat. They are there to remove dust and debris.

drilled rotors are for dissipating heat but mainly to eliminate outgassing from the brake pads. But with the technology of today this isn't really necessary. Some say the holes are for cooling. But I use the analogy of a pot of water. What takes longer to heat up: A full pot of water or a half full pot of water? And in normal everyday driving, you want them to take longer to heat up.

For racing? Yeah drilled is probably the way to go where they are constantly heat cycled. But this causes stress fractures around the holes and can cause the rotor to crack.

Just my take. Granted drilled rotors LOOK cool, I just don't think they are suited for everyday driving...

^^^Absolutely correct, plus the holes leave less rotor surface reducing friction area and reducing stopping performance. Drilled rotors aren't intended for use on our heavy cars.

[paxton]

So, if the slots aren't dissipating heat, you guys have any idea why when my rotors and pads heat up, they cause a bad shimmy? Is it because they weren't bedded in to begin with or maybe the rotors are slightly warped? I guess I could have a problem with one of my calipers also.

[1fastsedan]

So, if the slots aren't dissipating heat, you guys have any idea why when my rotors and pads heat up, they cause a bad shimmy? Is it because they weren't bedded in to begin with or maybe the rotors are slightly warped? I guess I could have a problem with one of my calipers also.
It shouldn't have anything to do with bedding the brakes. It is likely that you have some uneven deposits of pad material on the rotors. I'd start with the bedding progress and see if that helps. If not, then you can probably get a few thousandths turned off your rotors and re-use them.

It also could be any number of loose suspension components.

[markus]

zeckhausen.com has the proper bedding procedure. and the slots are to not only move away dust, but also gasses, water, and heat away. im with adam, i think you might have uneven braking surfaces. check your pads if you get a chance.

[paxton]

I did some bedding of the brakes last night. They seem alittle bit better today, but after reading the bedding procedure from Zechhausen, I probably need to do it again and do more repeated hard stops. I only did about 3 or 4 hard stops from about 60MPH and I probably engaged the ABS at least once. I'll try it again and do the 7 or 8 repeated stops from 60MPH to 10MPh and then accelerate to 60MPH and brake hard again. If this doesn't get rid of the high-speed vibration, then I'll go ahead and get 2 new front rotors and new front pads and then bed them in accordingly.

[HEMISFEAR]

I purchased the Satisfieds but have yet to install them since my existing pads have a lot left in them and my car gets the same shimmy on occasion. My rotors have less than 10k on them and it doesn't occur every time.

[MR-SMITH]

Mine sometimes fade too. I have thought about bedding them again.. Where is that link?

[markus]

www.zeckhausen.com

[markus]

try threshold braking it, abs won't kick in

[DragginWagon]

Have you considered your tires might be out of balance? maybe a rim with a little bit of wobble to it?

[Bud]

Yeah, I'm going with the factory slots. I've heard some really good things about the Satisfied ceramics, so I'm going to try those out. Supposedly they're similar in performance to the stock Brembo pads and alot less dust. I've never liked the Posi-quiets from day one, except they don't create much dust at all. Besides that...I think they suck!

Praise Jesus!!!

[Bud]

try threshold braking it, abs won't kick in

Like you know what threshold braking is ball bag! LOL

Cruising down I-95 listening to Eminem and slowing down quickly to make an exit doesn't count!

[paxton]

try threshold braking it, abs won't kick in
Enlighten me on what threshold braking is.


Have you considered your tires might be out of balance? maybe a rim with a little bit of wobble to it?
It only happens Jon when I brake hard enough a couple of times and heat up the rotors and pads. Besides that, I don't get the shimmy at all.


Praise Jesus!!!
Which part Bud? The less dust or that they suck!LOL


Like you know what threshold braking is ball bag! LOL

Cruising down I-95 listening to Eminem and slowing down quickly to make an exit doesn't count!

:pounding table::thumbsup:

[markus]

I love dicks in my mouth!
we know Rick, we know.

Enlighten me on what threshold braking is.
basically its braking up to the point to where you'd lose traction, yet not letting abs kick in. easiest way to do it is to curl your toes when you stomp on the brakes. when you feel traction about to give, or abs is about to kick in, just uncurl your toes only as much as necessary to keep the car from sliding. curl your toes back in once you've kept it from losing traction and modulate your foot and toes as necessary to keep it from sliding and also keeping abs from kicking in. once you've got it down, you can brake better than if you were to let abs kick in.

Rick's been through more driving schools than i have, so he may have an easier way to explain it, or just a completely different way, but this is the way i've been taught as per dos sop

[cheatek]

Pax, where you at on this? Still trying to "bed" the existing pads?

[paxton]

Pax, where you at on this? Still trying to "bed" the existing pads?

I bedded them that one night, although I didn't do it as much as the info said on the Zechhausen site. My brakes do feel better...seem a bit smoother when coming to a stop. I haven't really heated them up to hard since I tried to bed them, so I'm not really sure if the shimmy has gone away or not. One thing I did notice though, is that it seems my pedal is a bit mushy now. If I can hold-off on the front rotors and pads for now, I will, but I'll put them on the top of my list.

[cheatek]

I bedded them that one night, although I didn't do it as much as the info said on the Zechhausen site. My brakes do feel better...seem a bit smoother when coming to a stop. I haven't really heated them up to hard since I tried to bed them, so I'm not really sure if the shimmy has gone away or not. One thing I did notice though, is that it seems my pedal is a bit mushy now. If I can hold-off on the front rotors and pads for now, I will, but I'll put them on the top of my list.

Eh just get new ones dude and start fresh, that way you'll know if you still have a shimmy or vibration it's something else.

[paxton]

Eh just get new ones dude and start fresh, that way you'll know if you still have a shimmy or vibration it's something else.

I bedded them a 2nd time and overall they feel alittle bit better, but my high speed shimmy hasn't totally gone away. I'm thinking its definitely a combo of my rotors and pads upfront. I'll wait alittle bit then buy new front rotors and pads.

[NYCSRTATE]

I have stock rotors, new all 4 and Posi Quiets all around no stopping issues and a crap load less dust. If bedding doesnt work after 3-4 times its new pad time buddy and the rotors may be shot too, my 1st set of rotors hated the posi quiet pads, squeeled like hell had to get rid of them.

[paxton]

I have stock rotors, new all 4 and Posi Quiets all around no stopping issues and a crap load less dust. If bedding doesnt work after 3-4 times its new pad time buddy and the rotors may be shot too, my 1st set of rotors hated the posi quiet pads, squeeled like hell had to get rid of them.

I'm going to try and get my front-end checked out this coming week and see if my tie-rods are good or not. If the tie-rods are good, then I'm going to buy new front rotors and new front pads.

[paxton]

Well guys...I just confirmed alittle while ago at HHP that both of my outer tie-rods are BAD. Put the car on the lift and had considerable play in both outers. Looks like I'll be ordering outer tie-rods shortly and once installed, a front-end alignment. Appears this is the cause of my high-speed shimmy when braking. I'm going to buy the A/C Delco outer tie-rods and once I've got everything done, I'll let ya all know how she feels.